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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Oct 24, 2009 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 350 Day

denali_logo.png

On 24 October, people in 181 countries are coming together for the most widespread day of environmental action in the planet's history. At over 5200 events around the world, people are gathering to call for strong action and bold leadership on the climate crisis.

What does the number 350 mean?

350 is the most important number in the world--it's what scientists say is the safe upper limit for carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Two years ago, after leading climatologists observed rapid ice melt in the Arctic and other frightening signs of climate change, they issued a series of studies showing that the planet faced both human and natural disaster if atmospheric concentrations of CO2 remained above 350 parts per million.

Everyone from Al Gore to the U.N.’s top climate scientist has now embraced this goal as necessary for stabilizing the planet and preventing complete disaster. Now the trick is getting our leaders to pay attention and craft policies that will put the world on track to get to 350.

Is 350 scientifically possible?

Right now, mostly because we’ve burned so much fossil fuel, the atmospheric concentration of co2 is 390 ppm—that’s way too high, and it’s why ice is melting, drought is spreading, forests are dying. To bring that number down, the first task is to stop putting more carbon into the atmosphere. That means a very fast transition to sun and wind and other renewable forms of power. If we can stop pouring more carbon into the atmosphere, then forests and oceans will slowly suck some of it out of the air and return us to safe levels.

Is 350 politically possible?

It’s very hard. It means switching off fossil fuel much more quickly than governments and corporations have been planning. Our best chance to speed up that process will come in December in Copenhagen, when the world’s nations meet to agree on a new climate treaty. Right now, they’re not planning to do enough. But we can change that--if we mobilize the world to swift and bold climate action, which is what we're planning to do on October 24th.

What is the day of action?

On October 24, the International Day of Climate Action will cover almost every country on earth, the most widespread day of environmental action in the planet’s history.

There will be big rallies in big cities, and incredible creative actions across the globe: mountain climbers on our highest peaks with banners, underwater demonstrations in island nations threatened by sea level rise, churches and mosques and synagogues and ashrams engaged in symbolic action, star athletes organizing mass bike rides--and hundreds upon hundreds of community events to raise awareness of the need for urgent action.

Every event will highlight the number 350--and people will gather at some point for a big group photo depicting that all important message. At 350.org, we'll assemble all the photos for a gigantic, global, visual petition.

The thousands of events on October 24 will drive 350 and all that it represents into the human imagination, and change the negotiating environment as we head towards the crucial UN Climate Negotiations in Copenhagen in December of 2009. Copenhagen may well be the pivotal moment that determines whether or not we get the planet out of the climate crisis, and your actions on October 24 will help our leaders realize we need a real solution that pays attention to the science.

Greenpeace for 350

Rainbow Warrior
4039853490_9543afd5f5.jpg

— Fort Collins —

At 1:00 we will meet at the west end of Canyon Springs Park by the picnic shelters. Here we will take our 350 picture and then who ever wants to can join us as we bicycle the Spring Creek Trail through town drawing attention to 350.org. You can meet me here. I hope you can join us.

Also on October 24th from 2-7 pm, we will be rounding up our community of Fort Collins, Colorado to join in on the 350 movement. The event will take place in the center of our community, Colorado State University. We will ask students and community members to bring cans and bottles to participate in this historic event. For every bottle or can brought, we will add it to construct the number 350 on our plaza (the picture we will take). We plan on bringing in local politicians, local media, and speakers to provide entertainment and coverage for the event.

best way to protest the Bohemian Grove idiots

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Poster: barongsong Date: Oct 24, 2009 11:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

Right on DHM. I can't believe the idiocy of some on this forum when the facts and data show that Co2 causes climate change and is very clearly a real threat.Thanks for the info.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Oct 25, 2009 1:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day -- thanks everyone!

Thanks for letting me post 350 ppm here. It's good to see people reading and replying. I've posted several times about Bobby's arranged "protest" stunt for this historic Lake Placid version of Good Lovin' —— "The only people that can do anything about it are you and me... Push back! Push back the night!" This Lake Placid show is widely respected due to its Sugaree eruption when The Bus came by...

So what does Bobby think?

Arbuthnot-spacebobby.jpg

— he can't even hold a straight face —
Arbuthnot-Bobby___Nude_Deadhead.jpg

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Poster: jackstraw86 Date: Oct 24, 2009 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

Thanks for the post, Monty. I really wish more attention would be given to the huge increase in methane rather than just focusing on CO2. Methane buildup seems to be under the radar. (knowing how thread go on here, insert cow flatulence joke here)

This post was modified by jackstraw86 on 2009-10-24 20:13:09

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Oct 24, 2009 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

denali_logo.png

Leaders, thinkers, doers, and prominent
global figures spreading the 350 movement:

Bill McKibben

"Civilization is what grows up in the margins of leisure and security provided by a workable relationship with the natural world. That margin won't exist, at least not for long, as long as we remain on the wrong side of 350. That's the limit we face."

Bill McKibben is a writer, activist, and co-founder of 350.org. A scholar-in-residence at Middlebury College, McKibben is the author of The End of Nature, the first book for a general audience on climate change.

Rajendra Pachauri

"As chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, I cannot take a position because we do not make recommendations. But as a human being I am fully supportive of [350ppm]. What is happening, and what is likely to happen, convinces me that the world must be really ambitious and very determined at moving toward a 350 target."

Rajendra Pachauri is the chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. He has also served as director general of the The Energy and Resources Institute in New Delhi, and the chancellor of TERI University.

Vandana Shiva

"I am completely behind the 350 campaign. A shift from industrial agriculture to ecological, local food systems would be the biggest single step to move towards 350 and a safe climate, while simultaneously solving the food crisis."

Born in India in 1952, Vandana Shiva is a world-renowned environmental leader and thinker. Shiva has fought for changes in the practice and paradigms of agriculture and food. She has assisted grassroots organizations all over the world, and is a figure of the global solidarity movement known as the alter-globalization movement.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu

"Climate change is a reality. Life depends on a sustainable environment. With no world, there can only be nothing--no birds, no animals, no trees, no us. That’s why getting involved in 350.org is so important - it's an effective way to take action to turn around the climate crisis."

Desmond Tutu was Archbishop of Cape Town from 1986 until 1996 and is the 1984 winner of the Nobel Peace Prize who rose to worldwide fame during the 1980s as an opponent of apartheid. Since his retirement, Tutu has continued to work as a global activist on issues pertaining to democracy, freedom and human rights.

Dr. James Hansen

"If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm."

Dr. James Hansen heads the NASA Institute for Space Studies in New York City. Since the late 1970s, he has worked on studies and computer simulations of the Earth's climate, for the purpose of understanding the human impact on global climate. Dr. Hansen is best known for his testimony on climate change to congressional committees in the 1980s that helped raise broad awareness of the global warming issue.

Liz Thompson

"As a resident of a Small Island Developing State, I am acutely aware of the dangers of global warming. Some countries are closer to the frontlines of global warming than others, but we are all affected by this global problem, which requires from us a global response. Getting to 350 means saving our planet and ourselves from a disaster of our own creation."

Ms. Thompson has become one of the recognized leaders on environmental issues of the Small Island Developing States. She also became a key voice to raise awareness of global warming in Barbados - a country where the challenges of climate change and conservation are of particular relevance.

President Mohamed Nasheed

"Now the world has an opportunity to come together and prevent the looming environmental catastrophe. That opportunity is called Copenhagen. And let’s be very frank about this: Copenhagen can be one of two things. It can be an historic event where the world unites against carbon pollution, in a collective spirit of co-operation and collaboration. Or, Copenhagen can be a suicide pact. The choice is that stark."

Mohamed Nasheed is the President of the Maldives. He is the founder of the Maldivian Democratic Party, and has pledged that the Maldives will be carbon-neutral within 10 years, making it the first country in the world to do so.

Bianca Jagger

"Climate change is not an isolated environmental issue. It touches every part of our lives: peace, security, human rights, poverty, hunger, health, mass migration and economics. If we are to preserve the planet for future generations, we must reach 350ppm – the most important number on earth. Otherwise, we will reach the point of no return."

Bianca Jagger is a prominent international human rights and climate change advocate. She is the Founder and Chair of the Bianca Jagger Human Rights Foundation, Council of Europe Goodwill Ambassador, Member of the Executive Director’s Leadership Council of Amnesty International USA and Trustee of the Amazon Charitable Trust. For approximately 30 years, Bianca Jagger has campaigned for human rights, social and economic justice and environmental protection throughout the world. For her work in these areas, Jagger has been the recipient of many prestigious international awards, not least of which is the Right Livelihood Award, also known as the “alternative Nobel prize”. Others include the United Nations Earth Day International Award, the Amnesty International USA Media Spotlight Award for Leadership and the World Citizenship Award from The Nuclear Age Peace Foundation. She also received the World Achievement Award from Mikhail Gorbachev. In January 2009.

David Suzuki

"Why 350? We must return to the earth's natural balance!"

David T. Suzuki PhD, co-founder of the David Suzuki Foundation, is an award-winning scientist, environmentalist and broadcaster in Canada. He is well known to millions as the host of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's popular science television series, The Nature of Things.

Van Jones

"Getting to 350 means changing everything about our global economy. It means providing clean-energy jobs to rewire every corner of the world and catalyzing a global transformation built on principles of equity and opportunity."

Van Jones is working to combine solutions to America's two biggest problems: social inequality and environmental destruction. In 2007, he founded Green For All, a new organization working to build a green economy strong enough to lift people out of poverty.

George Monbiot

"This is a great initiative, which all those who care about the future of humanity should support. Only by holding down concentrations of greenhouse gases to this level can we be sure of preventing the runaway climate change which threatens our ability to feed ourselves."

George Monbiot is a journalist, columnist, author, academic, and environmental and political activist in the United Kingdom who writes a weekly column for The Guardian newspaper.

Sheila Watt-Cloutier

"Climate change is already dangerous. As the Arctic melts and the Small Islands sink below a rising sea, the world cannot stand immobile. Inuit and all Peoples have the right to live safely in their culture. As a shared humanity, we must back away from the precipice. 350 is a good target to head towards."

Sheila Watt-Cloutier is a Canadian Inuit activist. She has been a political representative for Inuit at the regional, national and international levels, most recently as International Chair for Inuit Circumpolar Council. Watt-Cloutier has worked on a range of social and environmental issues affecting Inuit, and has most recently focused on persistent organic pollutants and global climate change.

Will Steger

"We can not solve the climate crisis alone. It is a challenge that demands teamwork on an international scale--that's what I do on my polar expeditions, and that's what 350.org is doing to build a global movement for a better climate policy and a more sustainable future."

Renowned polar explorer Will Steger has launched Global Warming 101--a series of educational polar expeditions to the High Arctic and Antarctica led by Steger and dynamic young explorers from around the globe. The teams will travel by dogsled and kite ski to the front-lines of global warming at the farthest reaches of the planet.

Barbara Kingsolver

Reaching 350 ppm is a matter of living by my values—which include both “love your neighbor” and “try not to wreck every blooming thing on the planet while you’re here.”

Barbara Kingsolver's twelve books of fiction, poetry, and creative nonfiction include the novels The Bean Trees and The Poisonwood Bible. Translated into more than 20 languages, Kingsolver's work has won a devoted worldwide readership and many awards.

Hermann Scheer

"It is dangerous – and nothing but a very mean compromise – if governments call for a minimization of global warming from the current 0.7°C to 2°C. This would present us with a threefold increase in global warming and consequently an acceleration of climate catastrophe. Instead, 350ppm is the only acceptable aim, and we can attain it with a switch to renewable energies."

Hermann Scheer has been a member of the German Parliament since 1980, and is also an author, policy innovator and global leader in the field of renewable energy.

Alex Steffen

"Carbon-neutral prosperity is possible. We can design and build a sustainable society within the time we have remaining. The matter hinges entirely on having the will to build it--which is why the work of 350.org is so important."

Alex Steffen has been the Executive Editor of Worldchanging since he co-founded the organization in 2003, as the next phase in a lifetime of work exploring ways of building a better future.

Dr. Karl-Henrik Robèrt

“Climate change is a symptom of a much larger problem: we need to learn the rule book for sustainability and redesign our society accordingly. Going back below 350 implies reversing the systematic increase in emissions and I fully support the campaign in raising awareness of the system conditions for sustainability”.

Dr. Karl-Henrik Robèrt is one of the world’s foremost sustainability experts and founder of The Natural Step, an international non-for-profit research, education and advisory organisation. A surgeon by training and a prominent cancer scientist in Sweden, Dr Robert is well-known for leading an international movement to define and apply science-based principles for sustainability and a framework for strategic sustainable development.

Mathis Wackernagel

"Humanity's ecological footprint is at an unsafe level. By achieving 350 ppm, we can return to safety."

Mathis is co-creator of the Ecological Footprint and has worked on sustainability issues for organizations in Europe, Latin America, North America, Asia and Australia, and has lectured for community groups, governments and their agencies, NGOs, and academic audiences at more than 100 universities around the world.

Colin Beavan

"A crisis, they say, is a terrible thing to waste. And there is more than one crisis. First, is the crisis in our climate--we must figure out how to get CO2 down to 350 ppm in a matter of years. Second, is the crisis in our way of life. In the developed world, people suffer from anxiety and depression in epidemic proportions. In the developing world, over one billion people have no access to clean drinking water. We must do better. We have a chance to find an improved way of life, both for ourselves and for our planet. Let's take it."

Colin Beavan, aka "No Impact Man," is an author, and most recently, a film star of the brand-new movie "No Impact Man." The film, and book of the same title, tells the story of his bold experiment to live in New York City making no net negative environmental impact. Beavan was named one of MSN's Ten Most Influential Men of 2007 and was named an Eco-Illuminator in Elle Magazine's 2008 Green Awards.

Homero Aridjis

"We are already experiencing global climate change. This campaign will make 350 ppm a goal for the whole world. Every nation on the planet must be included in the upcoming global treaty, yet it will be the developed countries' responsibility to make the quickest and most drastic emissions reductions. No country can remain outside of this agreement that is our last opportunity to save the planet from this looming catastrophe."

As a child, Aridjis would often walk up a hillside near his home to watch the migrating monarch butterflies. As he grew older logging thinned the forest. This and other events in his life caused him to co-found the Grupo de los Cien, the Group of 100, an association of one hundred artists and intellectuals that became heavily involved in trying to draw attention to and solve environmental problems in Mexico. Aridjis has published 38 books of poetry and prose, many of them translated into a dozen languages.

Paul Loeb

"The hardest challenge of tackling global climate change is conveying the massive threat that the scientists recognize to the rest of us, going about our daily lives. 350.org begins to make the crisis concrete."

Paul Loeb is an American social and political activist, who has strongly fought for issues including social justice, humanitarianism, environmentalism, and civic involvement in American democracy. Loeb is a frequent public speaker and has written five books and numerous newspaper editorials.

Deepa Gupta

"IPCC states a 450ppm scenario as holding a 50% chance of averting climate crisis (more than 2(C rise) – you wouldn’t board a plane that has 50% chance of crashing would you? We need a secure and sensible target. We need 350ppm."

Deepa is a co-founder of the Indian Youth Climate Network (IYCN), a movement aimed to mobilize youth across India into taking action against climate change. IYCN has seen growth from 3 to over 205,000 people within 4 months of its initiation. Her other work has involved being the Indian Coordinator for the Australian Youth Climate Coalition for the faith climate campaign, strongly engaging youth from Hindu, Christian and Islamic backgrounds.

Ross Gelbspan

"In short, a real 350 – translated into a worldwide project to rewire the globe with clean energy – could provide an enduring pathway to peace – peace among people and peace between people and nature."

Ross Gelbspan is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and the author of a number of influential books on global warming, including The Heat is On and Boiling Point. Ross is also an influential leader in the United States climate movement and a respected educator and speaker.

Keibo Oiwa

"Be a sloth and slow down to 350. Slow down to the rhythm of the Earth. Slow down to the pace of the community. Slow down to the beat of life, So that we reconnect!"

Keibo Oiwa (Japanese pen Name:Tsuji Shin'ichi) is a cultural anthropologist, author, environmentalist, and public speaker. The founder of the Sloth Club, Japan's leading 'Slow Life' environmental group, he is in frequent demand for lecture and consultation throughout in Japan.

Claudio Angelo

"Sustaining 9.3 billion people on the planet, ensuring a prosperous future for inhabitants of poor countries and simultaneously protecting the species that share the globe with Homo sapiens will only be possible with an energy revolution. The climate crisis is our biggest collective challenge, and it can only be solved if we stick to ambitious objectives – like 350 ppm."

Claudio Angelo is one of the principle science communicators in Brazil and has been writing about climate change for almost a decade. He is the Science Editor at the Folha de S. Paulo, one of Brazil’s most prominent newspapers, and his book “Global Warming” is one of the first (and few) popular books about the subject in the country.

Thomas Homer-Dixon

"The 350 ppm target level signifies that our challenge isn’t merely to reduce carbon emissions to zero but also, as soon as possible, to remove large quantities of the carbon already in the atmosphere. It is a breathtaking challenge, but one we must now face squarely..."

Thomas Homer-Dixon holds the Centre for International Governance Innovation Chair of Global Systems at the Balsillie School of International Affairs in Waterloo, Canada, and is a Professor in the Centre for Environment and Business in the Faculty of Environment, University of Waterloo.


Bo Ekman

"350 is not complicated climate science. 350 is common sense."

Bo Ekman is founder and chairman of the Tällberg Foundation, a Sweden-based NGO that convenes global leaders to think about the future and to find solutions to the complex challenges we face today. A former senior business executive, Bo Ekman has been an entrepreneur. He serves on many boards in Sweden and abroad. He is also a prolific voice in the public debate in Sweden and globally.

José María Figueres

"During the last ten thousand years we have enjoyed a period of unprecedented climate stability. Today, as a result of man-made activities, climate is changing. The consequences of these changes represent the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced. Going forward, we will do three things with respect to Climate Change: mitigate, adapt, and suffer. Our option consists in choosing the mix. If we exercise leadership and act now, we will mitigate aggressively (reduce carbon emissions), adapt less, and suffer little. If we go on with a ‘business as usual attitude’, we will mitigate little, need to adapt more, and suffer profoundly. Let’s rise to the challenge with courage and determination, and reduce our global carbon footprint to 350 ppm! We can do this by joining efforts between the North and the South, and business and governments!"

José María Figueres is former President of the Republic of Costa Rica (1994-1998) and currently CEO of Concordia21 in Spain. He is conceptualiser and member of the executive board of the Global Observatory initiative that works towards the achievement of a comprehensive agreement at COP15.

Bulu Imam
"The 350 programme is our best bet for tackling climate change because it brings about global awareness on the subject."

Bulu Imam is the director of the Sanskriti Research Center in Hazaribagh, Jharkhand, where he coordinates the Karanpura Campaign, a 23 year old campaign he founded to prevent 31 new proposed and 3 operative opencast coal mines which is entering into its final stages now and still operates under his guidance. He also serves as the as convener of India National Trust for Art and Cultural Heritage (INTACH) Hazaribagh Chapter.

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Poster: angular Date: Oct 24, 2009 4:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

In the late 70's Al Gore was fighting climate change under the guise of "the next ice age will be here in twenty years" mantra. Now it's global warming. Actually 2009 was one of the coolest years on record.

It's a hoax. Cup and balls routine by a snake oil salesman.

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Poster: angular Date: Oct 24, 2009 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

pardon me. I meant 2008 as one of the coolest years on record.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 24, 2009 4:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Angular, I hate to say, this is simply NOT true....beginning in 75 he has argued consistently for one position (warming). But, I could careless about Gore--he's as important to me as Michael Moore or George Bush.

With respect to data on the Earth's temps, please provide sources to document your assertion.

I was in college in 75 and the profs (physics folks at all the top uni's) there provided abundant evidence that warming was coming based on CO2, and "normal" cycles. I have an equation provided by one predicting EXACTLY what has happened temp wise, 30 yrs later...NO one at the time was taking the "ice age" biz seriously...those folks were whackos none of us believed.

Seriously, as a scientist, I can assure all of you that it is simply a slam dunk that it is occurring. The only question is the degree to which we can do anything about it, or whether we want to (ie, if you figure we should continue to improve health standards, accept the consequences, etc.).

I really don't mean to be confrontational, but ANYONE that believes the hogwash about the data suggesting the Earth is not warming the past 25 yrs is in fact MORE "head in the sand" than the anti-evolutionists (and if you are one of those, stop reading this).

This is NOT a rant. This is not propaganda. Read 1000 articles by SCIENTISTS that get PAID to prove the status quo WRONG, and you will see that everyone that TRIED to suggest warming was not occurring CANNOT do it. It is NOT a conspiracy.

Sorry, but that's the truth. What you DO with it, is in fact a political, social, etc., outcome, but the data ARE in. I will not get on a bandwagon to suggest we should do this or we should do that, as "shoulds" are not for the faint of heart, philosophically speaking, but data are data.

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Poster: angular Date: Oct 25, 2009 4:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Yawn.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 25, 2009 5:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

That's an argument? What happened? No data to back up your conspiracy web based rant? When you actually read the science behind it, check back, k?

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Poster: B.C. Cox Date: Oct 25, 2009 12:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Tell, this being my ethical thinking behind mass consumption of "ICELAND" drinking water.

Get it while it's fresh and cold.

http://www.nordictravelguides.com/images/stories/Iceland/iceland_dettifoss.jpg

This post was modified by B.C. Cox on 2009-10-25 19:43:36

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

data sources
Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png


data sources
CO2-Mauna-Loa.png


data sources
Co2maunaloa2003.png

The Very, Very Simple Climate Model
modeled at NCAR (nat'l center for atmospheric research)

Effects of Climate Change Today
by NCAR

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Poster: jacnes3 Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Go hug a tree (like Mickey Hart)
This is all a plan that you Libs are falling for hook, line, and sinker. Al Gore would like you to buy carbon foot prints from his company.
Go read some more of the N.Y.Times.that we be out of biz soon.
Thank God I stopped smoking pot.

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Poster: billydlions Date: Oct 24, 2009 5:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Hey WT,

I dont think most would argue against the premise that the world has warmed over the last 50-100 years. I think that most of the non-believers are doubting that the cause is CO2 vs other naturally occurring events such as sun spots or unknown causes. So there's more to it than what you point out in your post. Should we take this seriously? Of course. At the same time, while we work on cutting co2 output we need to continue to keep an open mind that the science may not be settled yet as some believe. What are the explanations for the cooling over the last 5+ years?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 24, 2009 7:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Right, BD--you are correct to indicate that the precise causes, and the degree (hah! get it? unintended pun there, I assure you) to which we can do anything about it is the 64 dollar question.

Normal (ie, natural, whatever that is), man induced (by a variety of processes), etc., etc., can all be contributing.

And, as you and MS (hmmm--assume you have a more than passing stake in all this, eh?) allude to, what exact actions would be prudent IF you decide that sacrificing development in the Third World should be undertaken to try to effect a POSSIBLE change in the whole biz...?

AGreed, we don't know exactly...but, I would take issue with the "past 5 yrs" issue you raise...those data are in the minority (in terms of which datasets--ice sheet melting, glacier retreats, ocean temps, and so on--gathered by whom you pay attn to, etc.), by far, at least according to the many folks I have contact with in this field, etc., etc.

So, I would still say the science is "settled" (to the best extent it can be on such a topic) in terms of "is the Earth warming?" but AGREE entirely as to "what precisely is the cause(s)?" and "what can we do about it?" and so on and so forth...

Hope I didn't come on too strong with Angular in that prior over the top reactionary post of mine! Thanks to you both for taking a civil tone in cont'ing the dialogue!

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 26, 2009 6:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT so is Cooling.

When the historical patterns are looked at it is seen that warming and cooling are cyclical.

Are humans contributing to the cycle? - Most probably

Does that mean the cycle will be broken - Highly Unlikely

Bottom Line - The more we heat up the 'warming' phase the quicker we get to the 'cooling' phase.

Never underestimate the 'water vapor' factor!!!

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html

"Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its conentration is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is still fairly poorly measured and understood.

As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is warmer, the relative humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able to 'hold' more water when its warmer), leading to more water vapor in the atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold more water vapor and so on and so on. This is referred to as a 'positive feedback loop'. However, huge scientific uncertainty exists in defining the extent and importance of this feedback loop. As water vapor increases in the atmosphere, more of it will eventually also condense into clouds, which are more able to reflect incoming solar radiation (thus allowing less energy to reach the Earth's surface and heat it up). The future monitoring of atmospheric processes involving water vapor will be critical to fully understand the feedbacks in the climate system leading to global climate change. As yet, though the basics of the hydrological cycle are fairly well understood, we have very little comprehension of the complexity of the feedback loops. Also, while we have good atmospheric measurements of other key greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water vapor, so it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with balloon data and some in-situ ground measurements indicate generally positive trends in global water vapor."

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT so is Cooling.

You know another underappreciated aspect is that plants will be able to photosynthesize more with higher levels of CO2 around...in teh 70s and early 80s botanical types thought this might improve productivity signifianctly, but not sure where that stands...

I guess Angular dropped out, and again, I in no way think this is simple, nor that we are the sole cause, nor that we can develop a quick fix, etc....but most data from many different kinds of sources show warming is the trend the past 100 yrs, withou doubt. The "cooling" data sets are always suspect, outright falsifications, misinterpretations, or extremely limited indicator variables.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 26, 2009 7:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT so is Cooling.

I was thinking in terms of long term cycles.

There really is no doubt that Ice ages do occur and that over millions of years the planet has been cooler and warmer than it is currently.

There is a fairly 'tell'ing chart on this site

http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT so is Cooling.

Ah, yep; I follow you...just hope this one isn't of such magnitude that it throws prior history off...but hey, in the end, we'll be dead, right? Of course, me likely sooner than you!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 26, 2009 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Less Pirates establishes Global Warming is a FACT

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Less Pirates establishes Global Warming is a FACT

Makes me think about 'string' theory in a whole new way.

Does this mean that Somalia is really just fighting global warming?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Less Pirates establishes Global Warming is a FACT

To err is human; to Argh! is pirate.

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Poster: high flow Date: Oct 26, 2009 2:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Less Pirates establishes Global Warming is a FACT

In the name of the Father
The Son
And the Holy Meatball

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Poster: high flow Date: Oct 24, 2009 6:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

I wonder how all this would have effected Jerry's tone. Anybody with me?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 24, 2009 7:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Ha! Wait a minute, it was probably those multiple pack camels per day that really pushed us over the edge! How much CO2 was Jerry responsible for singlehandedly!?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Oct 24, 2009 9:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

I am.

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Poster: bbbrew Date: Oct 24, 2009 8:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Global Warming is a FACT.

Here is a good source concerning your global cooling question.
Check out the 2008 Global Temprature Anaysis
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Oct 24, 2009 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

If greenpeace is for it..it can't be a good thing!!

Freakin' whack jobs!!!

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Poster: Tony Armas Date: Oct 24, 2009 6:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4

This post was modified by Tony Armas on 2009-10-25 01:00:10

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Oct 24, 2009 7:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

Tony - that was entertaining; thanks for posting.

Man, I miss Billy Ball. Rickey was my boyhood hero, but he, Dwayne, & Tony together - with Billy - made the team what it was. And I would kill to see Crazy George again... is there anyone like that anymore??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhNLLYKvduw

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Poster: mreyus Date: Oct 24, 2009 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

THIS IS ALL BULL.

CHECK OUT YOUR WEATHER HISTORY

ITS ALL CYCLICAL

LIVE WITH IT

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Oct 24, 2009 3:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

its not cyclical. its a kozmik improvisation beyond human knowledge, although human actions can alter it to a certain extent

right now we (the normal humans) have to fight the polluting ba$tard$ on all fronts. its not about politics, its about survival > we win, we live - we lose and the human race disappears (burns in hell right here on earth). self destruction caused by the greed of rich evil doers. gotta stop them

its the greed and stupidity that make many blind

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 24, 2009 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

I wonder who pays the the bills each time these "experts" gather together ?Between their airplanes travels ,limousines to palace hotels ,exotic food meals , add it all up ,per year ,these "experts" use a lot of energies ,cost a lot ,polute a max themselves ,hé !

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Poster: high flow Date: Oct 24, 2009 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

Hmmmmm Skies.....I think.....YEP! That WAS common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhw8DFSGzvg

Long live Richard Jeni. Oops, he's already dead.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 24, 2009 5:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

I don't see the point about worryngon the future of world pollution with 3 billons peple ,in China and India ,all getting ready to get cars and industries for their near future ! I heard methane was the most dangerous for the survival of humanity ,but also the ed of the world was coming because of the cut down ofthe Amazone forest ,but wait ,don't forget cloning and manipulating biological organisms ,unless we should first worry about judgement or aliens invading this planet .Have your pick on worries ,while watching your TV on your couch !

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Poster: user unknown Date: Oct 24, 2009 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

"THIS IS ALL BULL."
No, bulls contribute to the methane problem, not CO2.

"CHECK OUT YOUR WEATHER HISTORY. ITS ALL CYCLICAL."
As much as it scares me to do so, I have to agree with you. History has shown that extreme weather does run in cycles. However, there is evidence that through careless consumerism we may be accelerating that cycle substantially.

"LIVE WITH IT!"
Easy for you to say, and in all probability everyone here at this forum can "live with it". Where it becomes questionable is with our children, and definitely with our grandchildren. It is my sincere hope that many future generations will be able to "live with it", rather than die from it.

Now, will you please lower your voice? There is no reason to shout.

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Poster: B.C. Cox Date: Oct 25, 2009 8:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

sounds like anther reason to suck some money from concerned folks.

also ... Don't forget the Worldly sing-a-long

http://www.savethewhales.org

Children Around the World Can Help The Whales!

Sing for "Save The Whales" on Thursday, May 13, 2010

STW - Music CD

We invite schools, ecology clubs, church groups, organizations and individuals to participate in our annual Sing to Save The Whales Day held each year in May. Five years ago Joan Cobb—a songwriter and music teacher—wrote “Save The Whales” for the Save The Whales website. That song inspired worldwide requests for the song and the creation of a CD entitled "Songs to Heal the Planet, Children Singing to Save the Earth.”

Featuring 16 fun and inspiring songs, Songs to Heal Our Planet promises to delight listeners, while at the same time raising awareness about a variety of environmental issues. It uses music to engage young people in learning more about the natural world.

The CD begins with a rousing Earth Day song featuring MaggyMay—now a junior in high school—backed up by the Beluga Children’s Chorus, a group of eight girls between the ages 6 and 12. Justin Gaudoin is the rapper and Tyler Tolles, the percussionist, on “Whale Rap.” Justin will be a high school senior this fall and Tyler is leaving for college. In addition, Tyler is the percussionist on most of the CD tracks. Ryan Hogans, age 18, solos on Earth Day and Keep It Green. All the performers live in the Monterey Bay California area.

“People Want Peace” features the Beluga Chorus singing the theme in 17 different languages. Other compositions include the haunting “Condor, Condor” with words and music written by an 11-year old girl, and “Whales Are Chubby” based on a poem written by an 8-year old Kansas boy and set to music by Joan.

The founders of Save The Whales, Maris Sidenstecker I and II—mother and daughter—wrote “Vaquita Chiquita” to highlight the plight of the vaquita, a small porpoise in the Sea of Cortez. Fewer than 200 of these remarkable animals still live there, making them the world’s most endangered cetacean. Joan wrote the music and the song features a beautiful guitar accompaniment by Stephen Krilanovich.

The purpose of Save The Whales is to educate children and adults about marine mammals, their environment and their preservation. Save The Whales was founded by 14-year-old Maris Sidenstecker and her mother in 1977. Maris designed a T-shirt with a blue whale and the slogan, "Save The Whales" after reading a magazine article on whaling and an organization was founded. Maris eventually became a marine biologist and leads the organization today, along with her mother.

If you have questions, please contact:
Save The Whales
1192 Waring Street
Seaside, CA 93955

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 24, 2009 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

Al Gore is an idiot!

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Poster: deadjunkie Date: Oct 24, 2009 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 350 Day

Don't forget Tipper and the PMRC!